Everyone will have a different opinion, but US jurisprudence prior to section 230 of the CDA basically asks the question "Are you willing to take on responsibility for everything you host?" If the answer is yes, then you should be openly trying to moderate everything. If not, then you should just have an open platform for the most part.

Might just be the old internet guy in me but I think I prefer that way of looking at the world.

"...have to shut down the whole network to stop you.

Bridges make it even harder for them because then you can also jump between platforms and if they can't shut down your server they'd have to shut down every single bridge..."

I begin to like #bridges. #FascismProof and #AutocracyProof, so-to-speak 😀

@jamie @oliphant @snarfed.org @luca @PCOWandre @chronohart @snarfed

(1/2)

"If Bluesky starts pumping hardcore propaganda and silencing leftist voices... then the bridge offers a light, showing the abuse and giving them a way out that doesn't involve starting over from scratch."

How so? I have not read that you can migrate you #BlueSky account to another #Fediverse platform, say, #friendica

However, for me the single biggest #exit barrier is, that I...

@jamie @oliphant @snarfed.org @luca @PCOWandre @chronohart @snarfed

(2/2)

...would lose my over 40k posts again, and *a lot* of them are important to me, as I regularly reference back to older posts. Furthermore, convos/discussions, such as these, are of value and are also worth keeping for future reference. They'd be lost, too, by moving. AFAIC, there is only one #Fediverse platform that permits migrating posts, but only internally, too.
//

(2/2)

...correct @shiri? (I hope I have understood everything correctly that all of you had such great patience to explain to me today.
//

@HistoPol

I begin to like #bridges. #FascismProof and #AutocracyProof, so-to-speak 😀

That is one of the main reasons the fediverse exists and and is structured the way it is.

There still are some concerns about trolls commenting on your posts, but that can be dealt with using the proper tools.

“The Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it.” -- John Gilmore

This applies to the fediverse as well.

Oh, my bad, it's late. I confused the "AP" and the "AT" protocoll. All clear now. AT is #BlueSky's new one. AP = ActivityPub = current #Fediverse standard.

So, but I might read this tomorow, if you chose to reply, how do we prevent this from happening to the #fediverse ?

https://mastodon.social/@HistoPol/110688997162686679

@jamie @oliphant @luca @PCOWandre @m @chronohart @snarfed

HistoPol (#HP)

2023-07-10 09:07:39

(5/5)

#FOSS

...we should not repeat the mistakes two other open-source platforms made with two other US tech giants, #Microsoft and #Google:

👉*"How to Kill a Decentralised Network (such as the Fediverse)"*👈

/END (to be continued)

https://mastodon.social/@HistoPol/110683248320346277

@HistoPol

I'd say, unless you limited the post to your followers, however if one of your followers were on the #Friendica or #Hubzilla platform, they'd still be able to quote your post and then you'd still lose control,...

Not exactly accurate. Anyone can copy and paste your words into the post box and quote you. Some platforms make it easier than others though.

Also, Mastodon is rumored to be including quote posts soon, so even on Mastodon, people will be able to quote you.

Copy and paste is possible, anywhere, always, yes.

Difference: copy & paste will not leave a trail to your original post, a link will.

#Mastodon was supposed to have quote posts last summer. Then @Gargron sent a lengthy explanation that resources had to be recomitted to fix backend features. Since, I haven't heard anyhting new regarding this, but I have not searched for it either.

"... it isn't something you as a *user *can "switch on", for you only, on .social, as that simply isn't how ActivityPub works."

I was afraid you'd say that ;) - makes sense (alas.)

@jamie @shiri @snarfed @PCOWandre @oliphant @luca @chronohart

Closest "user level" version of "whitelist mode" would be to require follow requests and only share to followers, never public.

From your descriptions, you really don't want whitelist mode either (you're basically defederating yourself and cutting off practically everyone).

The ideals you expressed, like I said elsewhere, are basically impossible to achieve. You have to pick your sacrifices... either you're posts federate to platforms you don't like... or your posts don't really federate at all.

@HistoPol @Jamie Booth @Oli @Luca Sironi @Andre @chronohart @Ryan Barrett @m@thias.hellqui.st

A very clear statement. Thanks, Shiri.

In fact, I do share quite a bit of content to followers only.

However, I am using "Quiet Public," even more frequently, as to not bore my followers with special-interest convos.

I'd really like a combinaton of these two: followers-only AND "quiet public" for these reasons.

@jamie @oliphant @luca @PCOWandre @m @chronohart @snarfed

Ah, I misunderstood you then, sorry. I think I would have understood that better if it was phrased as "ActivityPub" or maybe rather "the Fediverse", rather than "Mastodon", as this isn't a software-specific choice.

I think Mastodon would work just as well for this, if that's the preferred interface, on an AP network where Limited Federation and 'not connecting to Bsky' were the consensus.

Edit: I guess hybrid networks can work if the software is set to disallow certain protocols and can practically enforce that remotely. Thay would allow a "softer" exit. Is this an option in Hubzilla?

Filtered word: nsfw Reveal/hide

Highly interesting.

I think this sentence is missing the alternative method to #AccountMigration:

"The way out is because you can leave without severing connections."

@jamie @oliphant @snarfed.org @luca @PCOWandre @chronohart @snarfed

@HistoPol

Copy and paste is possible, anywhere, always, yes.

Difference: copy & paste will not leave a trail to your original post, a link will.

Actually, it can. I can manually type your handle and what you said and it will reference you. Just mentioning someone's handle such as @HistoPol@mastodon.social references them (i.e. @HistoPol)

It CAN, yes, but not automatically.

Most people are lazy.
Apart from me, I hardly ever come across people that put the source of an image in #AltText, for instance, where it really does make sense to do so.

Protection by inate laziness so to speak. 😉

@HistoPol @Jamie Booth @Oli @Ryan Barrett @Luca Sironi @Andre @chronohart @Ryan Barrett The alternative is making a new account and re-adding the same people.

I had to do that when I moved from Mastodon to Friendica.

I did this using a Tool migrating from the (now) #DeadBirdSite.

Still, not being able to migrate the convos is NOT an "alternative", but an *escape hatch*."

One example, that many will know:

Imagine, that you invented 1000's of hours uploading and curating pics and shorts on your #Instagram account.
For whatever reason, you cannot maintain your account. Starting a new one, you lose all your work (it's not just...

@jamie @oliphant @snarfed.org @luca @PCOWandre @chronohart @snarfed

(2/2)

...just the pics, but the interaction with contacts.)

PS:
I know:
...there are tools for exporting (beside the point)
...many people here even autodelete there posts (utterly different use-case)
...it's better than on most corporate sites (yes, but still just "rudimentary" flexibility, at least on #Mastodon.)
...that #Firefish(?) (still?) supports own-post migration (but that was no choice when I joined)

//

Like I said before, all of that is non-standard functions that the vast majority of the fediverse doesn't even support.

I think you might be confusing ease and possibility. Few people even when moving instances within the fediverse are going to have that option (save for those moving between two instances of the same platform).

It's not whether there's some convenient tool to move your posts or other data.

It's about whether after the move you can still get the same updates and talk to the same people.

Think of it in terms of the oldest surviving federated network: changing email accounts.

Before SMTP (the federated email protocol), you had to have accounts on every server with people you wanted to talk to. After you only had to have one account, but could readily move about the network to other servers if you got fed up with your server's bullshit or another offered better services.

(And for the record, public bridges with no opt-out methods exist for email as well)

@HistoPol @Jamie Booth @Oli @Ryan Barrett @Luca Sironi @Andre @chronohart @Ryan Barrett

I didn't knew this thing that you can't migrate your follower from mastodon to friendica 😐

From mastodon to pleroma (and i think also misskey) it works.

cc @informapirata

I understand your difficulties, but always remember that Friendica is compatible with ActivityPub BUT it works with a different protocol and its profiles are particular objects that contain a kind of unique key

@shiri

@Luca Sironi @informapirata :privacypride: Some platforms have specifically gone out of their way to support Mastodon's non-standard functions... that doesn't make them standard or a platform as deficient for not supporting them.

A lot of that has to do with the relationship between them, where many of those are newer platforms inspired by and emulating Mastodon. Friendica on the other hand is one of the old school platforms that looooong predates Mastodon, so supporting any of their non-standard stuff is a monumental task (it's easy to support something when you're starting from scratch)

@informapirata :privacypride: @Luca Sironi it used to work with a different protocol, Friendica has been ActivityPub based longer than Mastodon has been alive.

Always remember that Mastodon is well established to be a poor neighbor in the AP community, not supporting the full spec and often implementing their own non-standard solutions.

Just to add to your example: unless the old instance where you had your old account is gone too you/anyone can always view your old profile and the contents of it. It will still be there, with a note at the top saying you have moved and then point to your new account. From that perspective the posts and their interactions aren't "gone", though they indeed aren't linked to your new account.

The way I personally use social media I'm not too fussed about my historical track record for my posts, if I wish to "publish" (articles) or "store" something (photos) there are other, better, platforms for those purposes. Then I can link to that original source via social media to spread awareness. But that is how I use it, and I understand it can be different for someone else.

@shiri @jamie @oliphant @snarfed.org@snarfed.org @luca @PCOWandre @chronohart @snarfed

@activitypubblueskybridge @fedidevs @fediversenews

Well, migrating followers (just followers) should really be a standard feature of ActivityPub then.
One that must be implemented by all the supposed AP compatible projects

Nobody is gonna buy the theoretical reach of all the same people, like real freedom to change fediverse provider.

cc @evan

I'm actually pretty sure Friendica put up Activitypub a few months later than mastodon, but otherwise I agree with what you say.

@luca

In reality, when it comes to migrations, Friendica does much more than any other ActivityPub-compatible platform, such as importing all the messages and contents of the old profile...
Friendica cannot be responsible for Mastodon's flaws 🤷🏽‍♂️

@evan @shiri @activitypubblueskybridge @fedidevs @fediversenews

@HistoPol Well, technically speaking, image sources don't belong in alt-text, but in the post text itself where everyone can access them.

#FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #AltText

Not if you only have 500k and deep links...no real estate left 4 what u want 2 say.

(And no, after image, alttext and the source, this service ends--s.o. wanting link shortener, kindly program this feature into #Mastodon)

Sounds like an excellent solution

We need to beef up moderation!--We're going to be inundated by people with a completely different (net) sozialization and #netiquette:

https://mastodon.social/@HistoPol/110664442749882273

@jamie @chronohart @luca @PCOWandre @activitypubblueskybridge @fedidevs @fediversenews @shiri @snarfed.org

HistoPol (#HP)

2023-07-06 01:03:08

@tshirtman
Absolutely. Thanks.

(1/n)

What part of your #Fedi data and presence will be @ risk when the #MetaHordes come galloping through #ActivityPub from #Threads?

Like his press release.--But while I do not dispute the technological facts #Eugen explains, and will not even say that some of his conclusions are erroneous, this text simply overlooks the cultural dimension, qualitatively and quantitatively.

We are presently...

https://blog.joinmastodon.org/2023/07/what-to-know-about-threads/

What to know about Threads

There’s been a lot of speculation around what Threads will be and what it means for Mastodon. We’ve put together some of the most common questions and our responses based on what was launched today.

^{Mastodon Blog}

(1/2)

I agree with what you say.

Let me add:
even now, the search has notched up from virtually non-existent to slightly above abysmal.
I limit the search of my handle to that handle. I'd have to switch accounts, search twice, and would never again be sure that I am in the correct account if I don't know when I had published the post I was searching for.

But even more importantly:
I have many friends whose ordinal domains...
@jamie @shiri @snarfed @PCOWandre @oliphant @luca @chronohart

(2/2)

...don't exist anymore. Some have even had to migrate up to 3 times b/c of that.

This is the primary reason why I chose the flagship domain: if it goes down, there will not be a #Fediverse to speak of anymore.

Please remember the lessons learned of the #XMPP downfall, triggered by the #BeEvilCompany, as convincingly portrayed by @ploum here:

https://mastodon.social/@HistoPol/110683248320346277

//

@chronohart

HistoPol (#HP)

2023-07-09 08:45:38

PLEASE BOOST

This insightful article should be read by every regular user of any #Fediverse platform.

Via #LionelDricot, developer and #SciFi writer, @ploum

"How to Kill a Decentralised Network (such as the Fediverse)"

In his blog, he shows from his own experience how #Google and #Micosoft first embraced new FOSS protocols (like #ActivityPub), then extended it, finally deserted it leaving it languishing in a niche.

Also: #META's intentions in a leaked e-mail.
https://ploum.net/2023-06-23-how-to-kill-decentralised-networks.html

How to Kill a Decentralised Network (such as the Fediverse)

How to Kill a Decentralised Network (such as the Fediverse) écrit par Ploum, Lionel Dricot, ingénieur, écrivain de science-fiction, développeur de logiciels libres.

^ploum.net

@HistoPol @chronohart @Valerie MDD @Jamie Booth @Oli @Luca Sironi @Andre @m@thias.hellqui.st @Ryan Barrett oh yeah, EEE is definitely something to watch for, it doesn't mean don't connect though... just don't trust.

If it benefits them then Bluesky will kill federation in a heartbeat.

We already are not only a big threat to their profit margins but a dangerous antipode of their whole model.

If I were them, I'd also try the embrace and destroy approach. Just like an anaconda.

@jamie @oliphant @luca @PCOWandre @m @chronohart @snarfed @ploum

Mathias, I have quite a bit to comment on your long food-for-thought (indeed!) post.
I need to go now. however, I have bookmarked it. It might be Monday.

As a teaser:
I refer to old posts on a daily basis, sometimes up to 15x.
I even have started curating them, e.g. using the same buzzwords (e.g. #Project2025 instead if #Project25 (ambiguous.) I amend hashtags that significantly improve my search. And I add limk references...

@jamie @shiri @snarfed @PCOWandre @oliphant @luca @chronohart

(2/3)

...that I could not find or sometimes did not even exist when writing the post.
As with a thesis, topics develop over time (e.g. the climate crisis.)

I have been in the knowledge management "business" for a long time.

I try to inform and educate. You learn by repetition, working on, interacting about, and archiving for retrieval, among other things.

Also, I hate writing things a 2nd time. Improving them is another...
@jamie @shiri @snarfed @PCOWandre @oliphant @luca @chronohart

@AmyIsCoolz See here:

https://snarfed.org/2023-11-27_re-introducing-bridgy-fed

Appears to be "months."

cc: @snarfed.org

Re-introducing Bridgy Fed

Hi! I’m Ryan. I’ve been building social network bridges and related tools for over 12 years, including Bridgy, which connects personal web sites and blogs to centralized social networks…

^snarfed.org

I saw bluesky was talking federation and was actually happy aabout that.

I started a bluesky account, but if they federate, I can drop it and just stay here.